Wednesday, December 13, 2006

Emotions Running High

I received this email this morning (I am not including the name, since I do not have the permission of the writer to use it):

Wow!! who are you to write a story defending a KILLER??? Why??? This man Orlowsky is obviously not in the right by any means. I dont think that it is right that you can write a public story making a defensive story for him, something that he should be doing if he had probable reasoning for fireing a rifle in the middle of the street. Mind you not on HIS property. Why would he have a rifle on him anyway? Who carries a rifle around? And if innocent why is he running? This really upsets our family reading your story defending this man. What are you crazy too? Do you think like a killer? Chuck was a very nice young man with NO enemies and never would he have had a confrontation that led to murder or any violent crime like has happened. He did not deserve this nor do we deserve to read some non sense story you have written defending the man that killed our loved one.

Several people, including (obviously) this writer, have read my posts and somehow concluded that I am defending Bob Orlosky.
So, for the record, let me make the following points:
1. I do not know Bob Orlosky; to my knowledge I have never met the man.
2. I do not hold any belief that Bob Orlosky is innocent. To the contrary, as I have pointed out several times in posts and comments, his behavior argues for his guilt.
3. I did not know Charles (Chuck) Crow; to my knowledge I have never met the man.
4. I do not hold any belief that Charles Crow is guilty of anything that could have justified his murder.
All four points above are true — but I (and anyone else who is thinking instead of feeling) can observe (not accuse) that the story as presented in the news doesn’t add up; it simply doesn’t make any sense. I and others on these posts have observed this fact, and speculated on what the facts might actually be. Amongst those speculations: (a) Bob Orlosky is a completely crazy homicidal maniac, (b) Charles Crow and his buddies did something to anger or otherwise provoke Bob Orlosky — and those actions might or might not have been enough to justify the shooting.
The writer above clearly is leaning towards (a). Personally, I find (b) more plausible. The only information I have of this incident is that which has been published in the news; my opinion is formed from that information and a general knowledge of human nature gained in over 50 years of experience. The writer above implies that he or she has personal knowledge of Charles Crow. Other commenters claim or imply personal knowledge of Charles Crow, Bob Orlosky, or others less directly involved. Their opinions obviously reflect that knowledge, and to some extent (as with the writer above) the bias such knowledge produces.
There’s nothing at all wrong with any of this.
It’s human nature. It’s human nature to wonder what the hell actually happened on that Friday night. It’s human nature to worry about the possible variations that represent more risk to ourselves and those we love. It’s human nature to doubt the purity of anyone’s motivations or actions, for such purity is rarely seen.
There’s nothing wrong with any of this, the above writer’s complaints notwithstanding.
There’s also nothing at all wrong with the above writer’s complaint. The writer’s pain is obvious, and one can’t help but sympathize with that. Equally obvious is the writer’s knowledge of, and admiration for, Charles Crow. This writer knew Charles Crow, and is angered by even speculation that he did anything at all to provoke this crime. I can (and do) sympathize with this, even while disagreeing — for it’s exactly the behavior that I would hope my friends would exhibit, should anyone ever speculate about my involvement in something like this. But while my friends were shocked and offended at the speculations (because they feel that they know me), I would still acknowledge that others who don’t know me might have different perspectives — and those perspectives would be less biased than those of my friends…
But to answer the writer’s specific questions, and to rebut some of his or her points:
1. “This man Orlowsky is obviously not in the right by any means": What is “obvious” to the writer is not at all obvious to me. I don’t know what happened that Friday night, and therefore I don’t know whether Bob Orlowsky was justified in his actions. For that matter, I don’t know that Bob Orlowsky even took any actions. His behavior — running away, going into hiding — certainly isn’t what we all expect of an innocent man. However, there are plenty of well-documented cases where innocent men or women fled, usually because they were afraid of being accused of (and convicted and sentenced for) some crime they were innocent of. I can hear people getting all twitchy on me just at that statement, so let me be clear: I am not saying that I believe Bob Orlosky is innocent. In fact, I think his behavior argues against his innocence. But I also do not believe his guilt is “obvious” — for the possibility exists that there were mitigating circumstances, or even that Bob Orlosky didn’t commit this crime at all. I simply don’t know enough facts to reach a judgment — I wasn’t there on that Friday night, I don’t know any of the parties involved, and I am not privy to the results of the Sheriff’s investigation.
2. “I dont think that it is right that you can write a public story making a defensive story for him": Sorry, but I disagree with that on two levels. First, I did not make a “defensive story", I simply speculated on what the possible scenarios would be. Second, I have every right to do so — this is America, and we have this thing called “freedom of speech” here.
3. “not on HIS property": The rifle wasn’t fired on his own property? How do you know that? I have not seen any information in the news or on the Sheriff’s site about exactly where the shooting took place. If that is accurate information, then it is a damning piece of information with respect to Bob Orlosky. I would like to know this information for certain.
4. “Why would he have a rifle on him anyway? Who carries a rifle around?” If someone were invading my property, and I felt threatened, then I would for darned certain get out my gun and defend myself. As with my earlier statement, I am not claiming that this is what happened, simply noting the possibility — something this writer is dismissing.
5. “And if innocent why is he running?” Actually, as I mentioned earlier, innocent people do sometimes run. Certainly in the majority of cases, runners are guilty. But innocent runners are more common than most people imagine — which is why running from a crime is not considered evidence by the justice system. It’s an indication, to be sure, and it’s often a correct indication — but not always.
6. “This really upsets our family reading your story defending this man. What are you crazy too?” I’m sorry if you’re upset by my story; that reaction was not my intention. But…you own that reaction, not me — it was your choice to be upset. And you don’t have to read my blog — if you don’t like what I have to say, you’re free to go elsewhere. And I have the right to “think out loud” here, just as you have the right to send me that email. We have a right in America to freedom of speech — but there is no right to be free from being offended. Now as to whether or not I’m crazy — well, I think you’d get different answers to that from different folks. More than a few would say that I was, in fact, a few beers short of a six-pack…

53 comments:

  1. In the old blog, Anonymous said:
    What are you crazy too? for all the readers out ther as you can see this was posted by " Slightly Looney “enough said.

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  2. In the old blog, Anonymous said:
    Obviously the email that Tom recieved was from the family of Charles Crow. doesnt this make you feel warm and fuzzy all over. Some of your opinions and the way you handle things put your charachter in question

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  3. In the old blog, Anonymous said:
    I swear its your water!!!

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  4. In the old blog, Anonymous said:
    You didnt want to disclose who wrote the Email but the content obviously denotes a family member of chucks. Maybe his Mom his Grandmother or the mother of his Baby. doesnt this make you feel good. Maybe you need a job with the union tribune.

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  5. In the old blog, Anonymous said:
    BUT ARE YOU SAYING THIS FOR ANY OTHER REASON OTHER THAN A FEELING? THAT DOESNT SEEM LIKE A VERY FIRM BASIS FOR AN ACCUSATION.TOMS OWN WORDS

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  6. In the old blog, Anonymous said:
    YOU OUGHT TO STICK TO YOUR DOG STORIES BECAUSE YOUR NOT WINNING ANY FRIENDS HERE.

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  7. In the old blog, Just a Guy said:
    Just a note, I went to the location of the shooting. It’s 1.3 miles away from Skyline, not near any off road trails, and on private property (with posted signs). The road is only wide enough for one vehicle and on the backside of Orlosky’s Property. About 20 yard away from the area where copper scrap was being stolen the road leading away drops suddenly. In my opinion, after seeing the area, if one was shooting at the tires of a vehicle speeding off their property and the vehicle (in the dark mind you) went down a sudden downgrade, it would be very possible for a bullet path to go from tire level to head level. Support for this theory seems evident in the fact that, after observing a picture of the vehicle, there are no evident bullet holes in the back of the Jeep. Just flat tires and a broken back window. If Orlosky was trying to kill the victims he could have easily at least hit all three with a semi automatic AR-14! Now that your all pissed off keep in mind that I am not trying to defend Orlosky’s actions just his motives. The fact remains that he fired a gun at a human and now that human is dead.

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  8. In the old blog, Just a Guy said:
    Oh and by the way, I think your dog stories are pretty gay. But at least you won me as a friend. Thanks for helping state the truth!

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  9. In the old blog, Just a Guy said:
    Oh and someone needs to un-stick their CAPS LOCK key!

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  10. In the old blog, Anonymous said:
    Why are you all out to get Tom for writing a possible scenario? All he has done is speculated on a scenario that is plausible with the very LIMITED information that has been made known from law enforcement. There have been many people arguing that Tom is defending Orlosky but I find this totally untrue. He has clearly stated several times now that he believes the evidence is against Orlosky. Those who are defending Crow need to realize that in our criminal courts one is innocent until proven guilty. There MAY be other evidence out there that we have not heard yet. Also the people who believe he is guilty are relying on information they have heard second and third hand, they were not there at the crime scene. If the information about the cooper cabling being stolen is true and was found in the back of the jeep, why has it not been reported anywhere? I do believe that the evidence so far as shown Orlosky to be guilty but until all the evidence is out all we can do is speculate and come up with scenarios which is what Tom did and everyone has been jumping on his back for it. I for one am grateful to Tom for having this blog to write, vent, and ask questions. There are so many unknowns and alot of suspicious information about both parties. Orlosky needs to turn himself in so we can resolve this.

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  11. In the old blog, Anonymous said:
    TOM LACKS COMPASSION WITH HIS SCENARIOS. AND CANT ADMIT THAT MORE THAN JUST THIS CRIME HAS HAPPENED IN HIS OWN BACK YARD.I NEVER DID GET A REPLY TO THE TWO SAN DIEGO PD OFFICERS THAT OFFED THEMSELVES IN A GUN BATTLE IN HIS NEIGHBOORHOOD. OR A REPLY TO THE GUY THAT KILLED AND BURIED HIS WIFE IN THE BACKYARD WITH A BACKHOE. OH SINCE TOM HAS ONLY LIVED HERE FOR EIGHT YEARS MAYBE HE BOUGHT ONE OF THOSE PIECES OF PROPERTY. AS I SAID LAWLESS VALLEY.

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  12. In the old blog, Anonymous said:
    ITS THE WATER

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  13. In the old blog, Anonymous said:
    I DIDNT KNOW YOU WERE GAY, TOM SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE A NEW FRIEND

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  14. In the old blog, Mark said:
    Being a long time friend of Chuck and the Crow family I’m deeply scared for life. I feel its best to speculate but always keep a open mind. Crazy Bob is running my murdered my friend with a .223 calilber. I only know this because I found a casing on Skyline, so this shows after he shot at them ON WISECARVER he drove down and shot more rounds where the Jeep finally broke down @ Skyline. When someone on here mentions a AR-15 this leads me to belive they know more about this. I’ve never heard or seen any news of what type of gun was used.

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  15. In the old blog, Just a Guy said:
    Hey caps lock… Thanks for digressing to name calling and personal attacks. If you have something valuable to say why don’t you state that? Sure a little sarcasm has it’s place, but you sure know how to take it down a couple notches. Lets try this, do some research, don’t blindly believe everything you read, understand that sometimes people aren’t who you originally thought them to be, don’t buy into the rumor mill, state facts. Or you could just keep calling names

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  16. In the old blog, Just a Guy said:
    “Being a long time friend of Chuck and the Crow family I’m deeply scared for life. I feel its best to speculate but always keep a open mind. Crazy Bob is running my murdered my friend with a .223 calilber. I only know this because I found a casing on Skyline, so this shows after he shot at them ON WISECARVER he drove down and shot more rounds where the Jeep finally broke down @ Skyline. When someone on here mentions a AR-15 this leads me to belive they know more about this. I’ve never heard or seen any news of what type of gun was used.” I know the family, I have been to the house, I have held the gun that was used in the shooting. I have told all I know to try to clear up any rumors misconceptions or illegitimately relayed stories. But if you truly did find a .223 casing on Skyline do tell more. That would be a very interesting turn in the story! The day I found out about the Orlosky’s involvement in the shooting I went to their house and spoke with a tenant that lives there. He said he heard shooting and ran up to see what was going on. He was running up the road when Bob came down in the truck and picked him up. His tenant told me that the gun was in the truck. I was under the impression that Bob went back to the house and did not continue to chase the Jeep. I’ll do a little research and try to let you guys know.

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  17. In the old blog, Anonymous said:
    HEY JUST A GUY DO YOU KNOW HOW TO READ. THEN YOU MIGHT READ ALL THE POSTS TO GET A LITTLE MORE INSIGHT ABOUT PERSONAL ATTACKS. JUST A GUY IS PROBABLY TOMS WIFE. OTHERS ARE GET TIRED OF POSTING COMMENTS THAT DONT GET ANSWERED BY TOM. HE PROBABLY DOESNT HAVE HIS WIFES PERMISSION TO COME OUT AND PLAY. THE CAPS ARE ON SO THAT TOM CAN SEE MORE CLEARLY. HE IGNORES POSTING A PICTURE OF THIS GUY FOR DAYS< READ THE POSTS> YOUR OBVIOUSLY DRINKING THE SAME WATER.

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  18. In the old blog, Daniel Tyack said:
    I really didn’t know that we were posting on this thing for the blog owner’s approval or response. I assure you that I am a real person! I have shared real facts and shared my speculative thoughts. Here’s some Facts on “Just a Guy"…His name is Daniel TyackHe lives in JamulHe showers in Otay Water but drinks bottled stuffHe knows the OrloskysHe has been to the scene of the crimeHe believes Bob Orlosky is GuiltyHe wishes that we could all set our emotions to the side and try to figure this thing out in a reasonable manner without use of personal attacks!So there it is “Just a guy” has reveled himself! So the question is… will this change you? It’s really easy to post whatever you want when you go by Anonymous! Come on, let us see your face!

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  19. In the old blog, Anonymous said:
    YOU BORE ME DANIEL LEARN HOW TO READ THROUGH THE BS. I AM THE ONE WHO HAS POSTED PREVALENT INFO TO HELP FIND THIS GUY HOW DO YOU THINK ORLOSKYS PICTURE IS POSTED HERE? GET A CLUE AND READ ALL THE POSTS NOT JUST ON THIS PAGE.

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  20. In the old blog, Anonymous said:
    Just a Guy: It is TRUE about the .223 casing found in the street on Skyline. I responded to the comment where you were not speculating, but seemingly rather certain in the accuracy of your story about “the seven” who were steaing copper and that CHUCK was one of them-or that scraps were even found int he jeep — I asked you to check your facts. I find it amusing that you who- were so certain that you had the likeliest story - are turned by the fact that (after being stated several times) The a.) man used an ASSAULT RIFLE. AND b.) that he followed them all the way to SKYLINE where he continued to repeatedly fire on the victims(Not trying to KILL them?? It’s not SELF DEFENSE when you terrorize innocent people, follow them, shoot a man IN THE BACK OF THE HEAD, and then attempt to murder his friends because the are the only witnesses to your unjust actions and complete lack of self control). I’m not going to get involved in this “your defending Orlosky” war, but I will go so far as to say that you are strongly persuading me to believe so. The man is a coward. He needs to face what he has done, REGARDLESS the circumstances that led him to do so. One thing IS for certain: it was not self defense.

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  21. In the old blog, Anonymous said:
    ALSO IF YOU SHOWER WITH OTAY YOU DONT LIVE ANYWHERE NEAR WHERE THIS HAPPENED SO WHATS YOUR POINT DANNY BOY

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  22. In the old blog, Mark said:
    Its getting rough in here, lets stop calling people gay and saying its the well water. I don’t want to sart rumors or state something I cannot back up, but thats what I’ve been told was that he shot at them at his driveway and on Skyline. I would like to know the truth.

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  23. In the old blog, Anonymous said:
    emotions running high/ what do you expect Tom put yourself in this familys position for a minute. they have lost their son brother fiancee. how would you like it if the same thing happened to your family and one of your nieghbors was on the internet talking about the possibilities that would expain why this guy shot and killed your loved one.To catch this guy should be the only purpose for this blog. not your scenarios or rederic. you post your picture on this blog what kind of reception do you think you will get when one of the crow family members runs into you in 7/11 or the grocery or hardware store. It probably wont be Hi Tom how are you today. think about what you are doing here. after all these are your nieghbors.

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  24. In the old blog, Anonymous said:
    WELL SAID.

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  25. In the old blog, Anonymous said:
    Mark you said they caught Orlosky then you said it was bs., forgive me if I dont pay to much attention to your comments.

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  26. In the old blog, Mark said:
    After you loose your good friend and you get caught up in emotions its hard to think straight and I had heard through our group of friend that Bob was in custody and I made that post. Later learning that he had only been I.D. by photo. Now I’m only going to post if I know its 100%. Its sad to see everyone attacking each other. We are all neighbors.

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  27. In the old blog, Daniel Tyack said:
    To to .223 case finder - I was told by Orlosky’s wife that there was a group of 7 or so that had been stealing the copper. I was told that Orlosky’s place was known as “The Jamul Goldmine", and I was told that these guys worked together. I have never found Orlosky’s wife to be a dishonest or non factual person. If some one knows anything about the other guys in the car, let it be known! Did they work together? Were any close friends arrested recently? What else does anyone know?Once again I am not defending Orlosky, he must pay! A am however convinced that there is more to the story and I would like to know just as much as anyone else.By the way I love approximately 5.5 miles (as the crow flies) from the Crime Scene. Maybe you didn’t realize that Otay got out here…And to the CAPS LOCK guy, how would I know it was you who posted “PREVALENT INFO” (which by the way makes no sense in context) if you always go by Anonymous?

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  28. In the old blog, Anonymous said:
    thanks for the explaination Mark! understandable/ your right! but neighbors include this blog owner and he has the ability to quit fueling the fire with excuses and have more consideration for the Crow family and his friends. I am a jamul resident that is on the outside looking in. I dont even know the Crows but he should have more respect for this family. They are trying to mourn.

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  29. In the old blog, Mark said:
    I had heard through from several Jamul residents that a group of Tweekers have been robbing peoples properties all over Jamul. I had also heard that Bob’s house had been robbed but I didn’t know what for I had only heard that someone stole a tractor or something. But thats only what I heard after the murder. I think that if there were copper scraps or something in the Jeep there would have been a arrest on the scene. Isn’t it a felony to steal copper in Calif? My friends are not theives. I think they just went down the wrong road on the wrong night and faced a man that had been in raged due to these Meth heads stealing and Chuck paid the price for these piece of shit tweekers.

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  30. In the old blog, Anonymous said:
    THE MORE I THINK ABOUT IT TOM SHOULD HAVE TAKEN THE CROWS EMAIL AS “PERSONAL” AND SEARCHED HIS HEART BEFORE HE ADDED INSULT TO INJURY BY POSTING MORE REDERIC

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  31. In the old blog, Anonymous said:
    THE TWEEKERS ARE ABUNDANT IN JAMUL I HAVE HAD PROBLEMS WITH GROUP OF THEM IN TOWN. I HAVE HAD THE SHERIFF AT MY HOUSE 3 TIMES IN THE PAST 45 DAYS. CRIME IS ABUNDANT AND AS WE GET CLOSER TO CHRISTMAS IT ALWAYS GETS WORSE. THEY NEED TO PACK THEIR NOSES AT OUR EXPENSE. I CAN IDENTIFY ONE BY NAME BUT SINCE HE IS CONSIDERED A TRANSIENT I CANT FIND HIM TO ISSUE A RESTRAINING ORDER SO EVERY TIME HE COMES BACK HE IS WELCOME IN THE HOOD. THIS POLYANNA/ BURY YOUR HEAD IN THE SAND CRAP THAT WE ARE CRIME FREE IN JAMUL IS A BUNCH OF GARBAGE. ANITS PEOPLE LIKE ORLOSKY THAT TAKE THEM IN AND LET THEM STAY ON THEIR PROPERTY TO GET FREE WORK OUT OF THEM. OPEN YOUR EYES THE FURTHER OUT YOU GO THE LESS COPS ARE AROUND= CRIME

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  32. In the old blog, Tom said:
    1. The email was not from the Crows, or any family member who has been publicly identified. My assumption is that it is from a friend of the family. There was no request for confidentiality (even for using the person’s name, which was freely given), and the message seemed to jibe with the sentiments of others here.2. Is “rederic” a word <smile>?3. I comment on my own posts, or on others' comments, quite infrequently. My blog is my blog, and I do with it as I please. 4. One thing I specifically do not do with my blog is try to please all my readers — that would be a rather difficult job, even if I wanted to. You’ve made several comments ascribing purposes and responsibilities to my blog. Sorry, but you don’t get to do that — I do. It should be obvious even to you that I do not entirely share your perspective; you shouldn’t be surprised if I don’t behave in ways you find congenial. If you don’t like what I do on my blog, you’re free to start your own blog. It doesn’t cost anything, and it doesn’t require a great deal of technical skill to do so (try www.blogger.com). There are no spelling requirements that I know of (aside from your user name and password), though some blogging services disallow all caps.5. I allow almost any comments on this blog — even yours — no matter how inane, misspelled, illogical, or downright obnoxious they are. This policy is my contribution to something I believe deeply in: free speech. From your comments chastising me for speaking freely, it is evident that you do not share my enthusiasm for the first amendment. That’s your privilege, to choose not to exercise your rights. It is not a choice I will make.

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  33. In the old blog, Anonymous said:
    www.sdsheriff.net/tmw/2006/orloskyj.html

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  34. In the old blog, Anonymous said:
    Venting, mourning and sleuthing aside, we are all looking for something to help us understand what happened and why. That’s all. No one so far has defended Bob in all I’ve read. Asking “why” is not being sympathetic. All here are very aware of Chuck’s families pain. We can feel it too, it’s not so far from any of us. But what we’ve been given just doesn’t make any sence. Some of it is becoming clearer now though. Copper theft story is holding up (some of it anyway). The understanding of the true nature and terrain of Wisecarver Truck Trail is helpful. (It’s all dirt folks, and dips and twists like a roller coaster). How are you determining the exact location of the shooting? Is the tennant who met Bob that night, an accessory? Can we keep it to"just the facts"? Does anyone out there ever spell or grammar check? And is it ever gonna be possible to find an impartial jury in San Diego after all this?

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  35. In the old blog, Anonymous said:
    Has anyone heard anything official regarding the so called copper theft? I have heard rumors that copper was found in the back of the jeep but only on this blog and in conversations with people who know the Orlosky’s. I question this story because it could be a cover story that the Orlosky’s are using? Has anyone heard of this being reported from any police report? I would also of assumed that if copper had been found in the back of the jeep that the 2 guys that were with Charles should be arrested for theft and possession of stolen goods. Has anyone heard of this happening? Because I have not heard of either one of these happening from a “reliable” source I just can’t buy into the copper theft story yet.

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  36. In the old blog, Mark said:
    If they were stealing why would Bob run, if he had caught them or seem them wouldn’t he be around to talk to the sheriff. Did he know he killed Chuck? Did he aim at Chuck? Why run..................... I’m sorry but there is no justification for UN loading an assault rifle in to vehicle that it occupants are not shooting at you......

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  37. In the old blog, Anonymous said:
    Bob himself told me a few weeks before the shooting that he’d “been hit 2 or 3 times",( meaning he had had some thing stolen, he did not say what and I didn’t ask), and he was tracking the persons responsible. I did give this info to the police, and I had told other people the same story before the shooting. Another neighbor told me (before the shooting also) that it was copper cable or something. Definitely not worth a persons life, but that’s why the copper part is starting to ring true. Thefts on Wisecarver? Yes, we’ve had a few lately but they are extremely rare. A generator pumping a new well, and a set of golf clubs, if that makes any sense. I really feel for this young man’s family. By all accounts, Chuck was a decent man who never would have caused anyone any trouble, perhaps he was just on the wrong road at the wrong time. Nothing is ever gonna justify the loss for this family, we all understand that. Bob did have what some might call a scrapyard on the property. Never noticed any copper but then I never looked for it either. Yes, we’ve all heard about the Navy man who buried his wife in the backyard out here. That was almost 20 years ago. What does it have to do with this incident? Are you trying to say crime is rampant here? Not in my backyard and I live on Wisecarver. I know the Orloskys too, but have no connection other than I have found his wife to be the kind of person who cares for others and especially looks out for the wellfare of the kids out here. I think the truest thing anyone has said here so far is that Bob needs to turn himself in. That’s the only way we are ever really gonna know anything. All are cursed here. ( Bad Shakespeare) but that’s what happens in a tragedy. PS caps is shouting! It’s rude, and nobody listens when you shout. You might get a little more sympathy yourself if you’d loose the caps and stop attacking Tom.

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  38. In the old blog, Anonymous said:
    Damn! I meant “lose”. So much for spell check and proof reading.

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  39. In the old blog, Daniel Tyack said:
    The Copper was being stripped out of some transformers in the “scrapyard”. I know that for sure, I’m guessing there was probably some cabling as well. Bob’s wife told me that they have made off with and estimated $10,000 worth of scrap. I asked her why didn’t he just sell it in the first place, and she said if he had the cash he would spend it so he was saving it for a rainy day. On another note I talked to the family who lives in the house that is about 30 yards away from where the Jeep stopped on Skyline. The Mother was home when it happened and she heard NO SHOTS. If you know guns (which I am sure we all do) you’ll know that the concussion of a .223 is very loud! So I’m not sure I buy the story that Bob chased them down and shot at them again. If he did why are the others still alive? And why wouldn’t the police pick up the spent brass. If I was chasing down a vehicle to kill someone and they pulled over on the side of the road… Well it’s just a given.

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  40. In the old blog, Daniel Tyack said:
    Does anyone have a link for free criminal reports??? Like a government site…

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  41. In the old blog, Mark said:
    Daniel I think you should watch your words on here. You sound a little off your rocker after you painted that picture. Going off of the 10 Most wanted list it looks like Bobs the only one not Mexican and it looks like they been searching for the other guys for a long time.

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  42. In the old blog, Anonymous said:
    This whole thing is just so very sad especially for Mr. Crow’s family and young child. Regardless of what Mr. Crow and his friends were up to - NO ONE DESERVES TO DIE! Bob was and is a certified “nut case”. I understand that his wife is a wonderful and caring person and please remember that she had nothing to do with this. According to a source within the Sheriffs department Mr. Crow and his friends were “looking” for a place to hang out when Bob came upon them. Because Bob had been robbed recently he felt that Mr. Crow and friends were doing the same and open fired upon them! I would recommend looking in Canada as Bob has a female friend there.

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  43. In the old blog, Anonymous said:
    The whole mess is very sad and I’m trying to remember to say prayers for all involved.To the writer who suggested people use spell check: you incorrectly spelled a word or two in your post - it’s “sense” not “sence” and it is “family’s pain” not “families pain”. As far as finding an impartial jury in San Diego, I don’t think that will be an issue. I haven’t heard anyone outside of Jamul talk about this shooting. I’ve heard plenty about other homicides and other assorted crimes in the San Diego area, but outside of the Jamul area, this shooting seems to be getting very little attention.

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  44. In the old blog, Anonymous said:
    Grammar Nazi…Yes emotions are running high and it is difficult to stay objective and spell at the same time. It’s sad that people don’t feel this strongly about each and every wrong in the world. Maybe if we did, we could change the way we treat each other. And things like this would never happen anymore.

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  45. In the old blog, Daniel Tyack said:
    Once again, does anyone know any info about the other guys that were with Crow? What were there names, did they work together, why have there been like 3 different stories? Let us know!

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  46. In the old blog, Mark said:
    I’m good friends with all three of them, Chuck was like my little brother. I can’t give out their names due to the fact that Bob is on the loose and there no telling what he or others might do. But I will tell you they do not work together. The media is to blame for the diffrent stories, I have heard so many its horrible. We need to worry about where Bob is and not what the other guys names are or who can spell or writes in caps. Someone knows something and someone might be harboring him in Jamul!!!!

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  47. In the old blog, Daniel Tyack said:
    I hear you Mark. I didn’t even think about that, good call!

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  48. In the old blog, Daniel Tyack said:
    I hear you Mark. I didn’t even think about that, good call!

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  49. In the old blog, Mark said:
    Daniel, You said you talked with a Homeowner on Skyline and they heard no shots. When I went by the area where the Jeep had broke down, there was alot of glass in the street the next morning and someone sweep it up, I don’t think the Sheriff and Tow Truck guy would of sweep the glass out of the jeep on to the street. If this was Bob trying to stop someone from stealing on his property why would he run? I think Bob put the gun in his truck that night with the intentions of shooting. Someone said on the other blog that the road dipped down and if you lined it up he may of been trying to hit the back tires but shot through the window. Bullshit, he put enough lead in the motor that it stopped running. Someone needs to come forward that knows his where abouts. I have a strong sense in Jamul. You never know he could have a secret bunker on his property.

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  50. In the old blog, Daniel Tyack said:
    Has anyone seen the jeep? Where were the bullet holes. Did it truly get shot from the front? What’s the rundown? The only thing I have to work with is the one google image I can find that was taken from the rear/left. It appears that both tires are flat and the window is broken. I cannot make out any actual bullet holes in the back of the car. or the side. Does anyone have any facts about the vehicle?

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  51. In the old blog, Anonymous said:
    Channel 8 News just announced that Bob Orlosky has turned himself in and is in police custody at this time.

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  52. In the old blog, courtney said:
    if anyone wants to know the full story then talk to me cause chuck was shot in the side of the head not back and i think every one needs to stop pointing fingers cause as it is i lost my bestfriend and now have to try to help his girlfriend and baby chuck has never done anything wrong and yes he was going to buy a house because so of us like chuck can buy houses just because we are in are 20’s doesn’t mean we don’t work for a living he did make a good amount of money to buy his furute wife a house and why was he looking at house at night well when you get off at 5 p.m. and you work 7 days a week then you would be looking at house that late

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  53. In the old blog, Anonymous said:
    about chuck if anyone know who is breaking all of chuck crows cross and stuff please let us know we want all of this to stop

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